Let's Talk Fundraising

Beyond Quick Fixes: Real Solutions for Fundraiser Burnout with Raiya Sankari-Diaz

• Keith Greer, CFRE • Season 2 • Episode 3

Share episode

Send us a text

Ever wonder why so many fundraisers are burnt out and how to truly support their well-being? Join us as we engage with Raiya Sankari-Diaz, a global HR expert, to uncover the hidden causes of burnout in the fundraising sector. Forget superficial solutions like mindfulness apps; Raiya shares why authentic well-being programs, backed by genuine leadership buy-in, are essential. We explore the pitfalls of "care washing," where insincere initiatives lead only to dissatisfaction and disengagement, and we offer real-life insights and actionable strategies for fundraisers seeking more meaningful change.

Shift gears with us as we explore how smaller nonprofits can cultivate a healthy workplace culture that thrives on connection, creativity, and employee well-being. We dive into the importance of holistic approaches, emphasizing psychological safety, trust, and flexibility. Learn how to effectively engage stakeholders and gather meaningful data to tailor well-being initiatives to your organization’s specific needs. Even if you're not in HR, discover how you can influence positive change through cross-functional collaboration and data-driven approaches. Let’s break the culture of scarcity and work towards a thriving, inclusive workplace environment that stands the test of time.

HBR Article: Why Workplace Well-Being Programs Don't Achieve Better Outcomes

Support the show

Love the show? Support Let's Talk Fundraising and help us continue bringing you top strategies and insider tips. Join our Let's Talk Fundraising Insider today!

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Hey, there, hi, and welcome back ambitious fundraisers. Today's episode is one you cannot afford to miss. We're diving into a conversation that gets to the heart of something we all feel, but don't talk about enough burnout and well-being in fundraising. If you've read the recent Harvard Business Review article why Workplace Well-Being Programs Don't Achieve Better Outcomes and don't worry if you haven't, the link is in the show notes you know that so many of the programs designed to support employee well-being missed the mark. Why? Because they focus on surface-level fixes without addressing the deeper systemic challenges that cause burnout in the first place. They call this care washing and fundraisers. We see this play out all the time.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Here's the reality. As fundraisers, we're under immense pressure high dollar goals, emotional labor, leadership's expectations and the looming weight of our organization's survival. A mindfulness app or a one-off yoga class isn't going to cut it when the job itself is burning us out. So how can we, as fundraising professionals, advocate for real, meaningful change in our workplaces? Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Raiya Sankari-Diaz, a global HR expert who brings years of experience and insights into what works and what doesn't when it comes to employee well-being. Together, we're unpacking the challenges of burnout, the importance of systemic change and what nonprofit leaders and fundraisers can do right now to influence healthier workplace cultures.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Raiya and I cover a ton of ground, from leadership, buy-in and emotional labor to practical first steps and the future of workplace well-being. If you've ever felt stretched too thin or wondered how to spark meaningful change in your organization, this conversation is for you. All right, let's get into it and let's talk fundraising. Raiya is a strategic and compassionate HR leader with extensive experience driving transformative people strategies in Fortune 500 companies, nonprofits and government organizations Known for fostering inclusion and psychological safety. Raiya has successfully expanded talent pipelines and led cultural transformations at Kimberly Clark, mutual of Omaha and the City of Green Bay. Her expertise spans talent pipelines and led cultural transformations at Kimberly-Clark, mutual of Omaha and the City of Green Bay. Her expertise spans talent management, employee engagement and strategic planning, empowering organizations to achieve sustainable growth. A committed advocate for belonging and equity, raya brings a unique blend of emotional intelligence and strategic vision to create high-performing, inclusive workplaces where employees thrive. So welcome to the podcast.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Keith, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here with you.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Oh, I'm thrilled to have you. Let's just dive right into this article that we found so. You've worked globally in HR and you've seen all sides of the equation when it comes to employee well-being. What do you see as the biggest challenge, specifically for fundraisers, when it comes to burnout and mental health?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Such a great topic, super essential, extremely relevant and, honestly, Keith, across the board employees are facing this, but specifically for fundraisers, I would say some of the key issues that people are facing include just the challenges. So seeking balance, meeting goals, understanding how challenging it can truly be to have these things in front of you and then looking to create that kind of work-life experience and formulating the connection and how to relay what's going on right. And so, if there are challenges taking place, if there's a sense of overwhelm taking place, really looking at how to convey that and work through some of those barriers in order to overcome that and be most successful for sure.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Totally and in this article. There's a lot of discussion around this idea of care washing and programs that don't address the root cause of burnout For fundraisers, who are often under intense pressure both from the leadership side as well as from donors. Why is it critical that wellbeing programs focus on systemic change instead of just individual solutions?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Yeah, that's a great question.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

So I think the key factor in all of this is thinking through the authenticity component, right, and so there's really an opportunity to have that authenticity.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

What truly is lacking oftentimes when we think about care washing is the buy-in from leaders, and so there has to be that buy-in from senior leaders, and that has to be cascaded down as well as I say outward, right, and so there has to be momentum behind it, there has to be an understanding, and the authenticity factor is what really creates a success when we think about kind of working through some of these programs.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

And so, when we think about building out and we think about the experience that employees are having, how are they being engaged? Does it feel like something that is true to them? Are they being pulled to see what's important to them? Are their employee engagement surveys taking place? How are leaders putting their finger on the pulse of what's truly important to individuals that they're working with, and how does that show up in the workplace, right? How is that a part of workplace culture? And so that's a large piece of this is really understanding from a care washing perspective, where's the authenticity coming in from, and how are people tuning in to understand what is important to their employees and how can they best serve their employees first, so that the employees can serve the communities and meet the goals that are in front of them.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Yeah, and so when we talk a little bit about care washing, what is that? What's the impact of care washing on employees in an organizational well-being program?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Well, I'll give you an example. If we think about recognition as a component of well-being, right? So there was a study done once upon a time within health care, and nurses were provided with a piece of candy to thank them for their efforts and their work being done.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

85% of the nurses in that study resigned due to that, and so, again, it's where that authenticity factor comes in right and it's where you know understanding how to communicate with your people what are they looking for, what's important to them, and diving into that. And there are different resources that can truly equip leaders to help that take place. But the impact of that is disengagement. When we think about care washing right, so we know people become disengaged from their workforce and they tend to have one foot out the door and the impact of that right are dollars and cents. So there's the retraining that has to take place, there's the rehiring. It's a time resource, it's a financial resource, so it really has strong implications when care washing is done.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

And so let's talk a little bit about leadership, because you had mentioned that earlier and that leadership buy-in is a major key to successful well-being initiatives for employees. How can fundraisers advocate for better support from their own leaders, whether they're leading a team themselves or maybe if they're trying to influence the C-suite within their organization?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Absolutely so. My response to that, keith, would be to truly see the benefit of speaking up, so using your voice right, so saying what's important to you, having platforms for that. So it's twofold. I believe that it's part of the employer responsibility to share that, but it's also part of the leader responsibility to set up the environment that's conducive to sharing that feedback or that experience right. And so you can go as deep as to say, for example, oftentimes leaders will say, oh, we're having one-on-ones that's not being brought up in the one-on-one right. And part of that is my response to that is that's great that there's a one-on-one situation happening.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

What about a touch base? Because a one-on-one and this often gets lost in the HR world when translated to management and things like that so a one-on-one is meant to really go over the work that's taking place, the goals, etc. A touch base is hey, how are you doing, how are things going? And that can include surrounding life experiences, learnings that you're interested in. It's aside from the work component. So that's where that work-life balance piece comes into play and it's setting the stage to have that connection, that vulnerability, that trust, that psychological safety that will help drive the understanding of what's truly taking place with an employee from a burnout standpoint.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

And I think fundraisers specifically deal with a lot of burnout because we do a lot of emotional labor in our roles right? So we're constantly yes, especially if we're in a small nonprofit like we're fundraising to keep the lights on sometimes, and so the entire weight of the organization's survival feels like it's resting on our shoulders. So, from your experience, how can organizations adjust their expectations of what fundraisers can do to help reduce this pressure, and what should leaders be doing differently to support their teams?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Sure. So, again, understanding, first of all, there's opportunity here to be creative, because when we think about resources internally, we're all feeling a fiscal pinch at this time, right, and so looking at that piece of it is really, really important. And it's important to be transparent about budget and what we do have and what we don't have to drive certain programming and things like that. But there's space to be creative. And so, understanding your team and taking the time to invest in the team and understand what are their passions, what are they excelling in, where would they like to stretch right All of that can really help to grow the experience on a holistic scale. And so when we think about you know, smaller nonprofits that may not have a ton of resources to dive into some of this, and things like that, my advice is connection and creativity. Also, identifying who are your stakeholders. Are you communicating with a communications person perhaps that may have a capability in place where they can step in and help be a stakeholder on a very important project taking place right? They can step in and help be a stakeholder on a very important project taking place right.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

When we think about who we're interacting with, we're not necessarily always tapping in.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

In addition to that, I would go as far as to say is there a community liaison put into place, somebody who really is connected well in the community that can bring that information back?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

So there's knowledge sharing, there's connecting going on, extremely important when we think about the burnout factor, because oftentimes people we see this across the board, right People are internalizing that rejection and they get isolated.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

And there's also this silo effect that takes place, a deep, heavy silo effect where individuals are feeling super isolated, not connected with those around them, not connected with their community, and then that hits hard when it comes time to meet those goals, right. And so, in order to kind of bypass some of that, I say think about those in your community who you're not tapping into yet. Have those essential conversation, link up, meet up, have the conversations in order to help delegate some of that, so it's not just being owned in one central space, and that's a key to some of the avoidance piece of burnout is delegation individual who is working as the fundraiser as well as the leadership, to understand where their people are at. How are they delegating? Are they head down? Do they have opportunities to connect to elsewhere and are they tapping into that for the deepest, most positive outcome possible, I would say.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Yeah, and so when we were looking at the article, one of the things that you highlighted was the importance of holistic approaches. Can you walk us through what a successful holistic well-being program actually looks like in practice, because I don't think many of us have actually experienced a really good one, especially in a nonprofit where our resources might be limited. So what does that look like?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Sure. So that's going to be super specific to the organization, and so the best way to put your finger on the feel secure, safe, that their voice matters and that their experience matters and that their contributions matter. And so thinking about this is we want a program that fosters trust, psychological safety, balance, flexibility All of these can be key components into what's going to really help drive some of that well-being taking place within an organization. But I think the key thing is the primary thing to understand is how do people want to be communicated with? Because you have to gather data on this matter. That's simply the first step to understanding what's going to work well for your specific organization. So gathering data looks like you know you can create a high level survey. Hr can do this. Learning and development if that's a thing where you're at, learning and development can help with this. It's finding those kind of key people in those key roles to help foster this. So this can be created, and asking questions like are you satisfied in your workforce? Are you seeking more flexibility? What does that look like to you? And having space for people to communicate what's going to be really important to them. Do they want to be communicated with via email. Would they like to receive a text? When is that most important to them?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Research tells us that if we're going to take the email approach and extend a survey, that would best be done on a Tuesday morning at 10 am versus Thursday at 4 pm, for example.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Monday people are heavy with emails and different work going on prepping for the work week. Friday, people are getting ready to close out or maybe off for a long weekend, right. So we know that Tuesday is a sweet spot for really gauging employee well-being. We know that Tuesday is a sweet spot for really gauging employee well-being. Also, a great time to do that is spring, right, because this is kind of a new time and so putting your finger on the pulse in spring is great. Also, checking back in in October is a great time just to see where your employees are at and what's important to them at that time. So that's a strong way of creating a foundation to say, ok, I have this data, now I'm going to begin building. Whether that's sourcing an external vendor to help with some programming, whether it's compiling YouTube videos and then some questions to go with that for a team building day, it really just depends kind of on what's relevant to the people within your personal org and what they're experiencing at that time.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Yeah, and so when our fundraisers are, they're obviously a lot of times not involved in the HR decisions as part of our daily jobs. How can they help push their organizations to collect that meaningful data on the employee well-being, and how can that data be used to create long-term change?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Sure. So, again, connecting I always say don't be afraid to set up a meeting and reach out. It's really important to do some of that cross-functional work. Oftentimes we get super head down in our spaces and we're very focused on our goals and that doesn't leave a whole lot of opportunity to connect in kind of those cross-function spaces. And so thinking about, hey, do I know who my HR person is? Am I familiar with HR? Am I familiar? Do we have learning and development here? Am I connecting with communications, things like that? And so putting a meeting on a calendar and saying, hey, I'd just like to do a quick connect for 25 minutes and touch base on some things that are important to me, that's going to be a really strong way to get the ball rolling.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

The more communication, the more articulation that's happening surrounding this, the easier it is for HR to gauge what really needs to take place and set up those streams for gathering data and then putting that together, and so oftentimes people seek out consultants to do that. But it really doesn't need to be that route. It can be as simple as, again, a high-level survey, understanding what's important to your people and ensuring that there are a few initiatives set up to support that. People are looking for results. I think the worst thing that can happen is when data is collected and nothing is done with it. That leaves a hole in people's hearts, right.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

And it makes people feel unseen, unheard. So the goal of the reaching out and the conversation and the collecting of the data is to ensure that people feel seen, heard, and that, in turn, will help retain people, especially from a funding standpoint, fundraisers right that retention factor should take place and the data should also reflect that. If these programs are done well and I know that kind of sounds like a whole stream of things, but I've seen this carried out very well in different spaces and so I believe that there is a lot of work behind the scenes that takes place in order to help this be done well and be impactful and effective, and it's not just lip service when it's done well.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

So when you're talking about people that are being seen and heard, that's kind of talking directly to the culture of the workplace. And so how does that workplace culture play in either alleviating or exacerbating the stress within the organization, and how can fundraisers take the lead in shaping a healthier workplace culture? You know, even if they're not in a senior leadership position.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Sure. So I believe that there are leaders in every single seat. Your title doesn't depend on it. It's truly your attitude, your initiative and what's put before you, right, and what you create for yourself. You know what do you want to be a part of and what do you want to create, and so I think about it from a sense of what is your passion, right? You know, where do you want to invest your energy, what do you want to show up to every day when you come to work?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Everybody's heard of the Sunday scaries, right, where people are like, oh, I don't, you know, monday's right around the corner, oh my goodness. And so I think the purpose is to create that culture, and the way you do that is, again, to put your finger on the pulse of people. So what somebody could do is perhaps propose a committee, right, a culture committee, workplace culture committee and assemble some individuals who are interested in contributing to that, create a playbook for that. You can create a book club surrounding what does positive workplace culture look like. So there are some different things that can take place in order to help stimulate this environment, and we've also heard culture eats strategy for breakfast, right?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

That's a very famous quote, and so, strategically speaking, leaders can put a whole bunch of stuff into place, but if the culture of inclusion, of a speak your voice culture, a speak your mind culture, if that's not being perpetuated, that creates those silos again, right, and there's a deterioration, and the worst thing that can happen is the meeting after the meeting, right, and so everybody went there and it wasn't kind of the vibe, and all of a sudden you have, you know, people sectioning off to have conversations about man.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

This is tough, right, and so that's what we want to avoid with a healthy workplace culture to really build together, to come together to understand what is going to make us not just survive but thrive, and that means something different to everybody. That's why it's super important if a committee is formed, or if there is a connection formed there and something whether it's formal or informal, to have different voices at the table. The key is to bring a different lens forward through everybody and their contribution in order to get this holistic approach to well-being, because if somebody is experiencing something here, somebody else may be experiencing something else, and so that relevancy factor is extremely important. But in order to drive all of that, there has to be trust, and so trust is a key inclusive capability that leaders need to work on in order to foster the rest of this, to really make the workplace culture an environment where individuals feel soothed, present, welcome and as though they belong in order to bring forward their successes and their challenges overall.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Yeah, and talking about putting together a committee about this.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

This is something that's just kept repeating itself over and over in my life recently, for whatever reason, so I kind of feel the need to bring it up. But it was this idea of talking about how, whenever a new idea is being presented, you should never present it in a group meeting. You should always do the preleg work to meet with people one-on-one, pitch them your idea, get that feedback beforehand, start negotiating at that one-on-one level so that by the time you're presenting it to the group and you're trying to implement change, you already have people that are bought into this idea of where you're wanting to go and where you're wanting to get to. Because in every meeting it always feels like there's at least one, debbie Downer, who is gonna find every excuse in the book to delay, halt or stop the progress altogether. But if you're able to have that kind of coalition around what you're working towards, you are much more effective with bringing those groups together as opposed to launching ideas straight out of the gates. What are kind of your thoughts on that?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

So I would say transparency is extremely important, and so being transparent about what people are experiencing and, again, that's why surveys are so important, that's why outlets to express what people are going through is so important, and so there should be that transparency factor in my mind when we think about formulating committees. And so when there is data that speaks to the issue, the data speaks for itself. So that takes part of the pressure off the individual to have to push, push, push, persuade, persuade, persuade for something to take place. It's as simple as saying the numbers and the metrics here. They're letting us know that we need to do this, that this culture isn't as holistic as it could be, and we know that when a culture isn't super holistic and when people don't feel engaged, when people feel like they have to hide their feelings or hide aspects of themselves in the workplace, engagement can go down by as much as 85%. And so let that number sink in for leaders and sink in from a financial component. What happens if fundraisers are experiencing an 85% decline in their engagement in the workplace? That impacts the whole community. So, again, the numbers speak for themselves, and if the data says that somebody isn't feeling engaged, that's enough to if one individual isn't feeling engaged to create a ripple effect, right, and so you want to nip that in the bud by helping to propose strong, systematic approaches to some of this change.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

So when I think about this, keith, I think about how, again, when we rely on data and data tells us what needs to be done, some of these things can be embedded in the systems and processes, right, like the one-on-one situation I was talking about. Okay, so now we know, as part of our procedure, we may need to have touch bases, especially as part of our onboarding experience, right, and we need to have those check-ins, not only with our new employees but our seasoned employees. Are we having stay conversations, right? Are we having these conversations? When we think about exit interviews, are we having stay interviews to see how are people feeling, what's going on here, what can we do more of, and so really thinking about ways that people can really build themselves up, build up their community, their internal community at work it all comes back to. Are we building trust? Are we embedding those values into the systems and processes that we have? And when we look at policy, is that reflective of the well-being that we're saying? That needs to be transformative in this environment.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

And when you talk about that, employees who are disengaged have an 85% drop in productivity. I think one of the biggest frustrations for so many fundraisers is that nonprofits have this culture of scarcity scarcity of resources, scarcity of time and scarcity of an emotional bandwidth because of the work we're doing. How can nonprofits shift away from this scarcity mindset to create a more sustainable work environment for their employees?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Such a great question that feels like a million dollar question, Keith.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

It really is, if I had the complete answer to that, I think that would be just amazing. But I think I refer back to connectivity, staying away from those silos, really focusing on conversation and checking in. There are things that managers can do with their direct reports. Who are fundraisers? Just using different language, right, and so when we think about the impact that language has on our day, part of that is the recognition factor, right. But also thinking about using language and thinking about leadership styles that truly matter, and so using words of encouragement as silly as that sounds or as cliche as that sounds, it's true, but having there be that authenticity factor behind it utilize what the person is doing and compliment them on that. Their efforts are tremendous, and so let's make sure we're doing that.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

But we do know, and research tells us this, keith, it says that individuals are more likely to be uplifted by their peers than their manager, and so that's because the peers are the ones who are interacting on a regular basis, right. The manager may have less interaction taking place on that daily basis, and so peer recognition is a huge piece of this. So teaching peers how to recognize each other and understanding the individual nuances of how people want to be recognized plays a large part in this, of course, as well, and so some people want to be recognized with a note, some people want that public recognition, some people want to be recognized privately in discussion. So there's a lot of different ways that people want to be recognized and that I think that connectivity piece will help break down some of that, so people don't feel so alone in their experience, so overwhelmed, so burned out.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

And so let's get practical for just a minute. What are some of the first steps that a fundraiser or a nonprofit leader can take today to start influencing their organization toward better well-being practices?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Connect, talk to your people, communicate, communicate, communicate what is lacking, what is going well, what needs to stop, what needs to pause and what needs to continue.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Taking inventory is going to be really important in doing that, through communication and so taking the step to connect, being transparent and saying that, hey, I understand that this is super overwhelming right now, or I understand we're having a great year.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

What are we going to do to continue that momentum right? Or what are we going to do in the areas where this burnout is so severe? And how can I delegate differently from an individual standpoint, when we think about individual contributors and fundraisers, I would say the key is to speak up, use your voice and explain what is not working for you right now, simply what is not going well. One way to do that is to have a crucial conversation, and so that's kind of just focusing in on you know, this is what's happening for me, this is my results at this time. You're sticking to the facts, you're explaining. These are my numbers right now, or this was my experience, and I may need a new strategy or a new approach, but again, the culture is what's going to help shape the opportunity to build that new strategy or to re-strategize, to re-energize some of those capabilities.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

And so looking forward. How do you see the future of workplace well-being programs, evolving especially around high-pressure roles like in fundraising, and what innovations or trends should nonprofit leaders be paying attention to in order to create that lasting change?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Sure. So I would say generational diversity is going to play a huge part in understanding what takes place next and how things shape out. And so we know, in 2025, we're going to have a new set of Gen Z managers coming in, and that's going to really, really shape part of what the well-being process looks like within the workplace. That is for sure. Gen Z is one of the most therapized generations that we have known to us at this point, and so we know that Gen Z plays a large part in shaping some of that well-being, and they have an open approach to well-being, right, and so that's very different from some of the other generations. That research would speak to us and say maybe there are some differences there, and so there's going to be, I think, opportunity for growth and, at the same time, we think about tech, right, and how we use tech when it comes to well-being, and so there's going to be, I think, a drive towards learning how technology really holds close and safe for evolvement of well-being in the workplace.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

It may be as quick as opening an app up on a phone.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

It may be, you know, again, thinking that generational diversity, thinking about people who like to have one-on-one experiences or group experiences in person.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

And so, again, keeping your finger on the pulse of your own community is super important, and when you see those differences be strategic in your offerings, that's my word of advice. And so if we do have individuals who like a one-on-one experience on an app or who like to utilize tech for their well-being, that's great. If you have individuals who say I'd like a book club, I'd like to formulate a committee, have individuals who say I'd like a book club, I'd like to formulate a committee, I'd like to do more in the workplace for team building excellent from a culture component. And so think about how to integrate tech into some of those experiences. There's lots of ways to do that and there are different platforms that can help do that, and so it's really about kind of that flexibility factor. When we think about how we're going to evolve, I think my answer would be how are we going to be most flexible to meet the needs of the people?

Keith Greer, CFRE:

I think that's a great place for us to wrap up today. Being flexible for the needs of our employees is really, really important, but if somebody wants to reach out and follow up with you for more information, or if they maybe want to do any kind of consulting services, where can people find you?

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

I can be reached on LinkedIn, so please reach out, connect with me in LinkedIn space and I'm happy to talk further.

Keith Greer, CFRE:

Perfect, and we'll put a link to your LinkedIn right in the bio and in the show notes of this, so head right there to be able to connect with Raiya Sankari Diaz. Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your wisdom and your expertise. We really appreciate it.

Raiya Sankari-Diaz:

Thank you, Keith. Thanks for having me.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Keith Greer, CFRE

Host
Head Shot

Raiya Sankari Diaz

Guest